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How do you feel abut some non binary people creating "cute" pronouns based of animals,plants, and other things like bunself,plantself,botself,mewself,ect? Some people say it's terrible and people aren't going to take nb seriously but my nb people are happy with these pronouns and they make them feel comfortable. Also do you think dysphoria is required to be trans and or non binary? I'm just curious to what you think.
I don’t have an opinion about other people’s pronouns past, “that’s their pronoun.”
I don’t think dysphoria is a requirement.
if the first shot of ur male main character involves him in bed with a naked woman he just had a one night stand with who’ll probably not have any lines (unless it’s to compliment the man) and who in all likelihood will never reappear in the story, all in an effort to make ur male character seem “cool but emotionally distant/fragile”
1. i already hate him
2. i already hate you
tell that to literally any women’s shelter
I’m curious what exactly your experiences of social dysphoria are that do not exist within the contexts of physical traits. Please re-blog this post with a description of your personal experiences.
For me, at least, social dysphoria is about how I’m treated and seen by others. The expectations placed on men do not fit me at all. It all feels deeply wrong. I feel like the way people treat and see you has a significant impact on the conclusions you draw about yourself. However, everyone treated me in a way that didn’t mesh at all with my own self-image. It created this conflict that often left me feeling all confused, frustrated, and gross much in the same way that I’d feel when dwelling on certain masculine physical traits.
I can see it in their facial expressions and body language. Even something as small as a handshake that I know wouldn’t have been so firm if I was read differently, makes me feel nauseous and want to cry.
as a general rule my social dysphoria (which matches pretty closely to what tsotatsu describes) greatly outweighs my physical dysphoria
Would you state that the purpose of transition is to be seen as a member of a particular sex?
Let me explain the logic I would like you to critique: If the way we are treated is determined by how our physical traits are seen, does this mean that your social dysphoria is a result of the fact that your body is not seen in a way that triggers the desired response in the context of gendered interaction?
Because, if your social dysphoria originates from the fact that your physical features trigger a particular response, how can you state this is removed from the experience of physical dysphoria?
If you are stating that you are comfortable with having features that trigger a particular response, but also do not like what that response IS, this implies that your problem is external and not internal. To go to the hypothetical question of a post-gender society, you would be comfortable as you are. (As in, a society without gender roles.)
Would you agree with that?
this is the kind of thing I could spend weeks on but I’m running low on spoons and I still have calc and stats homework to get to, so here’s a “readers digest version”.
first off to me the difference between physical and social dysphoria. physical dysphoria is what makes me fantasies about cutting my skin off when facial hair comes in. social dysphoria is more a function of how I’m treated and how people recognize me (not a perfect definition but I don’t know how to break it down any better)
now were I live despite looking very much like a comicbook/videogame/computer nerd I still get people who react with a fair amount of surprise when I say I’m not interested in sports. so were I live gender roles are pritty rigid and expected and it’s distinctly possible this makes my social dysphoria worse. that being said even in a world with absolutely no gender roles and no limits on how gender is expressed my physical dysphoria would still be big enough that I would seek transition, but I do think I would be a lot better off.
thank you for posting this
I find it interesting that the hatred that used to go towards HBS-ers and the Boomer-bullshit is now directed towards people who think dysphoria is a requirement to being trans.
nobody is directing any hate at people who just say that dysphoria is inherent to the transgender condition.
where the hate is going (as you must know, since you’ve tagged this “truscum”) is to people who say that genital dysmorphia not only is dysphoria, but is the only kind of dysphoria.
hate is going to people who say that social dysphoria doesn’t exist, and that any kind of gender woes related to parts of people’s bodies or lives except their erogenized zones aren’t worth validating as “trans.” hate is going to people who argue that taking on gendered social practices can’t alleviate dysphoria, because clothing/makeup/sports aren’t gendered somehow. hate is going to people who think that “abolishing gender” only implies the abolition of “phony” trans people. hate is going to people who think that there are phony trans people.
hate is going to people who say that gender should be abolished as a social construct but retained as a biological construct. hate is going to people who think that biology isn’t a social constuct, and even if it was, it certainly wouldn’t be transphobic. hate is going to trans people - trans people! - who don’t see a valid distinction to be made between physical sex and social gender.
this isn’t new hate, or old hate redirected. let’s be real here: an HBSer is just an AMAB truscum who focuses her ire on other AMAB trans people. it’s the same trans narrative orthodoxy, and they both deserve all the hate they can get.
The thing I find interesting about this, is the old hypothetical “If we live in a society without gender expression, would that do anything to help people whom are bodily dysphoric?” - Which I would argue, No. Yet arguably, trans people whom were not bodily dysphoric would cease to be trans because social dysphoria would be impossible with the abolition of gender roles.
In fact, more often than not I’ve seen attempts at enforcing freedom of gender expression turned against trans people with bodily dysphoria. I’ve met many hippy folk with the attitude of “If you can express yourself as you please, you don’t need to mutilate your body to be who you are.” Which of course completely misses the point.
So then, I must ask what meets the needs of the trans community that is bodily dysphoric? The answer is medical intervention. (HRT, Surgeries, whatever) This proposes the supposition that being trans is a medical condition. Ideally, we would live in a wonderful Anarcho-Communist society where medication and surgeries would be easy to acquire and not hidden behind a wall of red tape and financial burden. Unfortunately, we live in a state capitalist society with both of these limitations. One in which the demedicalization of the transgender experience causes direct consequences to the lives of trans people whom are bodily dysphoric. (The logic being: If it is not a medical condition, it does not require a medical solution.) -Not to mention the inherent ableism behind seeing it’s medicalization as necessarily a bad thing. (History of institutional abuses aside.)
I also find it interesting that you specified bodily dysphoria in a way to imply that it only exists in the contexts of erogenous zones. I’ve spent far more time dysphoric about my hairline and facial features than I’ve ever spent worrying about those. Yet that is clearly physical dysphoria and not social dysphoria. (Unless you subscribe to the idea that transition is about being identified by others as a member of a particular sex, in which these distinctions are moot.)
Ultimately, this comes down to how much credence you give to the importance of the social construct vs. empiricism. The social construct model can justify things an empiricist considers to be absurd. For example, I can say that I am a rock because what we define as animal and what we define as mineral are social constructs. That by destroying the social construct of classification itself, I can validate my mineral self. Classification is itself, the meta of social constructs. Much like I can type “Language is meaningless” while still using the very real empirical truth of language itself.
I am curious though, and I’m about to post a call for submissions for people to describe what their experiences of social dysphoria that is in no way attached to a physical trait are like.
you’ve misread my response.
i’m not the one saying that dysphoria only applies to the gendered parts of people’s bodies, and that only genitalia and chest tissue fall under that category. i’m not the one going after non-op trans people. that’s your truscum pals.
i’m also not saying that physical dysphoria doesn’t exist, or that physical, bodily transition is unimportant. i’m saying that social transition is, too.
i’m not the one saying people’s identities are absurd, either. yes, it’s ridiculous and transphobic for cis people to say “just be yourself, you don’t need to…” in response to trans people’s particular needs. it’s also ridiculous and transphobic to draw up absurd hypotheticals like “i could identify as a rock” in response to trans people’s particular needs.
and as for your first paragraph: it’s not about gender roles. it’s not about gender roles. it’s not about fucking gender roles. you even alluded to this in an offhand, “what if?” manner: it’s about presentation, it’s about perception, it’s about being and living as your preferred gender and yes, medical care helps with that. so do clothing swaps and makeup tutorials and prosthetics.
i’m not overeager to erase the distinction between gender and sex in order to force a wedge between “transsexuals” and “transgenders” or “pre-op” and “non-op”
My apologies skeletrender, for the part that I misread.
That said, my critique of the social construct mode of thinking is itself about the philosophy of social constructs, and not about the needs of trans people.
To your “It’s not about gender roles” response to my “what if” scenario, I still have to ask what would make a person trans in a society without gender roles that isn’t related to physical dysphoria. In a hypothetical society where clothing, makeup, etc was all gender neutral, it would be impossible to be socially dysphoric. I agree with you that it is not about gender roles.
For the record: I also do not support the supposed distinction between transsexuals and transgender, nor the op/nonop distinction. As I have stated previously, the term transsexual is built upon the discrimination against queer, nonbinary, and non-op trans people. (The groups HBS-ers actually claim are not true transsexuals. The literal reason WHY they claim that as well.)
If your argument actually, explicitly states that it is “not about the needs of trans people” and cares more about philosophy than people’s actual lives, you have fucked up somewhere.
There is no world where gender roles and gendered societal mechanisms don’t exist. There is no world where it is possible to exist completely outside gender. And to pull in this hypothetical, impossible genderless world in order to force marginalized people out of the protection of a community that should be safe for them is oppressive. You would literally throw members of our community to the wolves because they do not fit your definition of what trans would be in an imaginary world.
You might claim this is a thought exercise, but your “thought exercise” hurts real people. You should know better than most that discourses don’t exist in a vacuum, and that the consequences of those can do real, lasting harm—be it physical, psychological, legal, etc. And truscum ideology is harmful, and toxic.
Being trans isn’t something anyone would do for fun, or to be popular, or what the fuck ever is the reason that truscum give for “transtrenders”. It is who you are, and you do it because you have to, to be honest to yourself. And because we exist in a gendered world, it is not impossible for someone to need to live as a gender different from the one they were born into, even if they’re fine with all their parts. Your body isn’t all of who you are, and it isn’t the beginning or ending of identity. You claim anarchist ideals earlier in your posts. Who then, are you, to assume the role of police for someone else’s identity?
Social Justice Warrior is the same as Hipster or Bogeyman in that tumblr has never actually encountered one but sure seems to know a lot about them to remind everyone they’re prepared for it when it happens
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